Plants, People, Science

Dr. Carl Motsenbocker: Transforming Horticultural Education and Sustainable Farming in Louisiana

• American Society for Horticultural Science (ASHS) • Season 2 • Episode 8

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Unlock the secrets of sustainable agriculture with us as we welcome Dr. Carl Motsenbocker from Louisiana State University. Discover how his work in local foods and sustainable farming is reshaping horticultural education and community connections. We'll guide you through the discussions at the 2024 American Society for Horticultural Science Annual Conference, where we gained insights into the shift from large-scale farming to small-scale  environmentally conscious agricultural practices.

As we explore the world of sustainable small-scale farming in Louisiana, Carl shares stories from his experiences teaching vegetable crops and organic gardening. These real-world classes aren't just about growing food; they’re a platform for engaging young people in practical, hands-on learning and community projects. The landscape is changing, and new farmers are stepping up with a fresh, environmentally conscious approach, bridging the gap in the local food supply and revitalizing local agriculture.

Learn about farm-to-school programs, which are transforming how food is grown, taught, and consumed in schools across Louisiana. From the initial USDA Farm to School Conference grant in 2013 to the comprehensive program we see today, these initiatives are growing food at schools, integrating curricula, and sourcing local produce. By adapting educational resources for dynamic learning methods, we're reaching younger audiences and supporting farm-to-school efforts with the Seeds to Success program, ensuring a sustainable future for generations to come.

More about Dr. Motsenbocker and Seeds to Success:
https://www.lsuagcenter.com/profiles/cmotsenbocker
https://seedstosuccess.com/

Learn more about the American Society for Horticultural Science (ASHS) at https://ashs.org/.
HortTechnology, HortScience and the Journal of the American Society for Horticultural Science are all open-access and peer-reviewed journals, published by the American Society of Horticultural Science (ASHS). Find them at journals.ashs.org.

Consider becoming an ASHS member at https://ashs.org/page/Becomeamember!

You can also find the official webpage for Plants, People, Science at ashs.org/plantspeoplesciencepodcast, and we encourage you to send us feedback or suggestions at https://ashs.org/webinarpodcastsuggestion.

Podcast transcripts are available at https://plantspeoplescience.buzzsprout.com.

On LinkedIn find Sam Humphrey at linkedin.com/in/samson-humphrey. Curt Rom is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/curt-rom-611085134/. Lena Wilson is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lena-wilson-2531a5141/.

Thank you for listening!


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Curt Rom:

Welcome to Plants, people Science, a podcast of the American Society for Horticultural Science where we talk about all things horticulture Cu I'm , professor at the University of Arkansas, and I'm joined today by our co-host, amson Humphrey. Hey Sam, how are you doing?

Sam Humphrey:

I'm doing great, urt. We are here at the American Society for Horticultural Science Annual Conference and this is our first live episode in two years. Thank you, everyone in the audience for coming. Could you introduce the podcast and what we do?

Curt Rom:

Well, tpodcast is interesting. It's actually something that one of the programs at ASHS. We like to feature ASHS members who do amazing things amazing things in their laboratory, the field or the classroom the amazing things in their laboratory, the field or the classroom. We tend to have topics that are a really broad audience. We like to reach out and let people know about horticultural science. We have a podcast team. I know we are the two voices, Sam and I, but we have a team behind the scenes. So we've got a research team. We have a planning team that helps us pick the topics, a research team that researches those topics, and then we have a production team that produces the podcast. We do about four or five a year, although this year I think we're going to have about eight, but the idea is to tell neat stories about how cool horticulture is and how amazing horticulture science is. So, Sam, tell us a little bit more about you.

Sam Humphrey:

Curt, I have just started my PhD program at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville. I don't think we've actually had an episode since I've started there. It's going really well and I'm finding all sorts of wonderful research ideas here, listening to talks at ASHS and planning my PhD research. So I'm doing well. I do culinary herb research and I'm happy to be here Well great.

Curt Rom:

I forgot to tell you congratulations on your master's degree. That was big. I really enjoyed listening to your seminar and your presentation for your defense. But congratulations on that. Congratulations on your appointment in Tennessee. I look forward to seeing the work that you're going to do on your dissertation. You've been having a good conference.

Sam Humphrey:

So far I have. I've seen you talk, I think three times, and it's been amazing each time. I've attended a few workshops, I've attended many different lectures by students. It's really exciting also to see everyone talking to each other, making connections, seeing the older generations of horticulturalists and their students and their students' students all talking together. What about you, Curt? What have you enjoyed here?

Curt Rom:

Well, you know I've been this is my 45th year coming to ASHS meetings and you know I really enjoy the science. But I think now, at this stage of my career, what I really like are the friendships the scientific and the academic friendships I've made the colleagues. It's to me a little bit like a family reunion when we all get together we catch up, we are sharing what we're doing and what's exciting us. But I've been enjoying that and I've been enjoying. I've heard some really good presentations and I saw some good posters and I was impressed with the qualities of the graduate student science that I've seen. So there's good science being done and the fun is always in the hallway and the networking.

Sam Humphrey:

That's true, and there are so many diverse topics being covered as well, so many different fields that I haven't been a part of but that I'm learning about just by being here and having conversations like the conversation we're about to have today.

Curt Rom:

You know when I say our friends long-time friends and colleagues that we developed through the ASHS. That's our guest today. Our guest today is Dr Carl Motsenbocker from Louisiana State University. Carl and I have been associated because we have similar interests and we have taught similar classes and done similar research for a while. So let's get into today's topic, what I thought we would talk about today. We've got one of the ASHS experts on local foods and food systems Again, Dr Carl Motsenbocker.

Carl Motsenbocker:

Welcome, Dr Motsenbacher. Hello, it's a pleasure to be here today.

Curt Rom:

How's it going for you? Are you having a?

Carl Motsenbocker:

good meeting. I'm having a great meeting and there's just too many different sessions that I would like to go see different topics. So it's exciting for me and to also meet up with old friends and see people I haven't seen since last year at this meeting.

Curt Rom:

Yeah, I feel the same way and I think I've become more of a generalist as I've uh aged in horticulture. So I said, Dr moskenbacher, you and I've been friends a long time. May I call you Carl for this, of course? Yes, good, Carl, tell us a little bit, give us your background and what you do, and maybe give us your three-minute feed.

Carl Motsenbocker:

Okay, I'll do my best in three minutes. But I'm a professor of horticulture. I was first hired to teach and to conduct vegetable research, but now I have kind of expanded. I have an extension appointment with three statewide extension programs. We have the Grow Louisiana Beginning Farmer Training Program, we have the Louisiana Farm to School Program and I am the SARE PDP the Sustainable Ag Research and Education Co-State Coordinator. So those three extension programs and then I have a teaching appointment. I teach four classes. Right now I'm actually teaching a vegetable crops class while I'm not here. I have good people back home that are helping me with that and I teach a sustainable agriculture course and I teach organic gardening and sustainable crop production class. And then I have a LSU and Thailand study abroad class.

Curt Rom:

Yeah, where you and I overlap is I did a lot of work early on about food systems and local foods and sustainable food production and I got very interested in community gardening, school gardening, farm to school kinds of programs. So tell us, you know what's exciting to you. I mean, you moved from vegetable production Louisiana's got pretty strong commercial vegetable production and that's growing at scale and all of a sudden you have gone to this different scale. What motivated you to go from focusing on commercial production to these other aspects of scale and of a local food system?

Carl Motsenbocker:

So that's a good question. I still remember when I was teaching my first vegetable crops class I won't tell you how many decades ago, but I realized that it was too late to reach out to college students, that we need to reach out to the young, younger people. So we started doing service learning projects with my vegetable crops class and then my organic gardening class. They would learn how to garden and then they would go out in the community. You know, learning by doing is better because you are actually understanding more when you teach somebody else. And so I started doing that and actually I go back. I was in the after I got my undergraduate degree. I was working in Thailand and I had my first school garden. I was like 24 years old and trying to figure out what to grow and how to sustain that and actually feeding people in a village, feeding the children because they didn't have a school lunch program, so it kind of feeds all the way back and that's like 40 years ago.

Curt Rom:

You know that's a very similar journey that I took when I started working on sustainable and organic production systems. That kind of led to food systems and then that led to the components of the food system that are smaller scale. You know, not only backyard gardeners but really gardeners and farmers in the urban and peri-urban environment and school gardening. And, like you, I taught a class, and we'll teach a class, called community institutional school and public gardening, which kind of focuses on management of that. So what excites you about gardening at that scale or that component of the food system?

Carl Motsenbocker:

So for me, when I was teaching my organic gardening class, I was using Elliot Coleman's book the Organic Grower, and that is basically a husband and wife making a living on five acres, which many people would say that's impossible, and that was 30 years ago. And then I had some students that had been in my class. They are farming. And then they said this is like 10 years ago. Look there's the market gardener, you got to read this book ago. Look there's the market gardener, you got to read this book. His premise is an acre and a half for a husband and wife, like two people to make a good living.

Carl Motsenbocker:

And then Elliot Coleman, he scaled down to two and a half acres now and we have a beginning farmer training program and we really focus on small scale intensive growing where I think there's a really good niche for local food systems in shortening the food chain instead of relying on grocery stores and food coming from California and Florida into our state. So I think that is what really has been exciting to me. And then we also bring in my former students that are farming. They come in and say I was in this class, you know, back 12 years ago, and I'm farming now and we go visit, there's a husband and wife. They have a farm like six miles from campus. So we take the students out there and they get to see exactly yeah, you can put that into practice and you can do it and you can enjoy. It's hard work, but it's working outside. You're your own owner, your own business. I think there's really good value in that.

Sam Humphrey:

That's amazing. So in this, these few decades of experience that you've had, really getting to know the farmers and being very involved at a local level, how has your job, how has your work, changed over time? Your perspective? I'm just I'm curious about that.

Carl Motsenbocker:

Well, that is actually an excellent question, because I started to reflect more on this, because I have to determine when I'm going to step down, when I'm going to stop doing this. And it really has, because I was focusing more on commercial you know, larger scale vegetable production and I realized that not everybody can do that. You can't borrow the money. You know land costs are pretty high where we are and this is a model that can work, and so it has been interesting to be able to have funding. Without the funding, I couldn't do this, and literally right now we have five extension associates working on these three extension programs, plus we have part-time people, and it's been more of managing people. The hard part for me has been to have to give up control and trust people and we have really good team members we share and they could literally tell me anything. You know, and I've learned to get criticism. I ask my students and they know they can tell me. Well, that lab was horrible.

Curt Rom:

Students can be really honest and I'm impressed how often farmers tell me what they do and I do not know. Well, I want to go to one aspect of this. You teach a course in sustainability, several courses in sustainability, and that's been kind of a focus effort for you. Why are these small-scale local foods? Why do we consider them as a sustainable component of our food system?

Carl Motsenbocker:

Well, I guess it relates to what our local food system is and how we need farmers. I mean, we have a dearth of farmers, at least in our state. In many places, you know, the number of farms has been going down, acreage is going up, there's a lot of debt. We don't have much support for our horticulture producers. They don't get a government check like some of the row crop farmers do. So I think in terms of sustainability in most of these farmers that are becoming farmers are most that. Take my organic gardening class. They are non-traditional students. They don't come from farms and they want more environmental stewardship. They want the community and I find that that whole group of young people are very much different than our older farmers. They're willing to share, they're willing to have people come on their farm and learn and to work with them. It really excites me to see this. They are building community and even within my class they'll be out there harvesting plots for our food pantry and they'll be talking and enjoying just being outside, you know, and it's fun to watch.

Curt Rom:

You know, with the decline of vegetable production in Louisiana that you made, I mean, it appears to me then that these kind of farms are filling a gap, filling a need and provide fresh food locally. And what's the ?

Carl Motsenbocker:

That's just like the rest of country. The number of farmer's markets has increased and that is one of the avenues that I think young people that are trying their hand at farming. It's a good place to practice, a good place to meet the community, meet buyers and people who are buying, see what people want, what kinds of quality, what do people need. So we look at that as just one component. But New Orleans is a great market for restaurants and I know some farmers are able to sell fresh local product. The nice thing is the product is often like a day old and it's fresh. It's brought right down to the farmer's market or to restaurants. So there's a great opportunity.

Carl Motsenbocker:

The farm in Baton Rouge, fullness Farm, the two that took my class she actually got her master's with me looking at soil health on her farm and looking at three different stages Fresh ground, ground that they had worked for like two or three years, and then ground they'd worked at for five years and looking at that. And she was able to help me teach my class for like three years, you know, and to have that person in the classroom a young person, you know, working with students, I mean, I'm an old person, an old white male, and I acknowledge that. But we have to give the young an opportunity. But it'd be difficult for them to be in my space right now with all that we have going on and to balance, you know, home life and work. So but it is exciting.

Curt Rom:

It's an exciting time to be in local food systems that you mentioned that kind of resonated with me is that the opportunity, because they have shortened the supply chain from farmer to the market or to the consumer, that develop, delivering fresher produce, which in a lot of cases may mean higher quality because it to be harvested more mature, and no product deterioration through the supply chain, delivery chain but, also eliminates some significant parts of the cold chain and so that the energy requirements might be going down.

Curt Rom:

Is that really true too, to? I mean, if you're delivering it, you're harvesting it on Friday and delivering it to a restaurant on Saturday to be consumed Saturday and Sunday. That's a significant difference in refrigeration from something that was harvested last week and then having to be transported and refrigerated to tenner and then held in a distribution center.

Carl Motsenbocker:

Right, yeah, I think that is one of the environmental stewardship aspects, the sustainability aspect, shortening the food chain. Product is harvested at perhaps better quality, you know, instead of green, mature tomatoes, vine ripened tomatoes, peak ripeness, peak flavor, delivered, delivered, and they don't have to be stored as long and the market is closer. So, yeah, less transportation costs, less cooling, so all that kind of fits in into that particular system.

Sam Humphrey:

So you talked a bit about these growers being hungry for information and even being your graduate students, becoming your graduate students. I'm curious if you could elaborate a bit on your efforts to meet that need for information. How do you reach out to all these people and what does that look like?

Carl Motsenbocker:

Well, we were fortunate to have a USDA Beginning Farmer Rancher Development Program grant so we developed Grow Louisiana. It started in 2019. We ran it for three years in different parts of the state. At that time we didn't have many mentors for these small-scale farms but since then we've had a cohort going through several of them, going through several of them. But with our program we usually do farmer meetups. We don't usually advertise, we let the farmers advertise and then we support them getting together with networking.

Carl Motsenbocker:

With the Sustainable Ag Extension Program. We do farmer trainings. We did a farm tour last year in a town west of us, like four different farms and you know we had over 120 people. Part of that tour is a day-long tour. So that's kind of the activities that we have. But the Grow Louisiana program is a year-long program eight sessions in the spring, a couple summer trainings and then eight in the fall. So we're actually in our sixth fall training. We have a couple more and then there's going to be a farmer meetup. So this new cohort, along with other farmers that are in that same vein and we often see them like we'll do a tour where the farmer meetup is and then they'll be talking and making you know, connections and sharing ideas. I think that's where we're really seeing more of, instead of the traditional classroom learning.

Sam Humphrey:

Yeah, what sort of information are they hungry for? Are there ?

Carl Motsenbocker:

So I think soils and this is that I'm not as well versed on, some of the new like we would say newer ideas about soil health and how to benefit and ideas about soil health and how to benefit, and a lot of them don't like to use synthetic fertilizers. So how do you build up your soils? How do you sustain that? Another is marketing, and usually when I work with farmers, marketing is the first topic you know, unless you have a market, and also integrating livestock into horticulture, because we're seeing more and more diversified farms where they have chickens and they're collecting other livestock products to use as fertilizer.

Curt Rom:

So it's kind of going back to the way sustainable farms used to be 100 years ago sustainable farms used to be 100 years ago as part of the food system and the market chain that these growers might utilize to help sell their product. What's the development in Louisiana like, and in your area, about farm to school programs where farmers might sell directly, or as an individual or through a cooperative, to a school? Is there much activity in farm school programs, and have you been involved in those at all?

Carl Motsenbocker:

Well, that's a good, very good question, because I actually have it's kind of a long story, but I'll tell you.

Carl Motsenbocker:

It may be good to give you an idea how I got into it.

Carl Motsenbocker:

So I was doing service learning projects at schools and then I applied for a USDA Farm to School Conference grant back in 2013. We put on a conference in Baton Rouge and two other regional conferences and then I applied to. I went to a Farm to School Conference in Austin, Texas, and I had like a two or three week window to apply for a specialty crops block grant and I wrote a small grant to do Harvest of the Month Basically one fruit or vegetable each month and celebrating that. And so we did a pilot where we went to three schools around the state and we introduced that in sourcing local. So we had to kind of coordinate that. And then our Department of Education and our Department of Ag and Forestry they had passed a resolution through our legislature without any funding, to start a farm to school program back in 2016. So the Department of Education called me literally called me on the phone and said, hey, Carl, you want some money for Duke Farm School and I called again.

Carl Motsenbocker:

I literally waited for two months because I was teaching. I had all this. You know we're all working. It's like, well, how much money are you going to give me? Is it just $20,000, $30,000? So it actually started in 2017. And we were getting. We also applied for USDA Farm to School grants. We've had several of those. There was several pots of money and most of it goes through the Department of Education and then it comes to us. So we have a conference. Our conference is next week. So I was working this morning trying to meet with some of our team. We have a team meeting every Wednesday, so that's how it's gotten in and you asked about.

Carl Motsenbocker:

So Farm to School has like three tenants to it. The first we would usually consider is growing food at school. It's like school gardens or maybe aquaponics or growing in the classroom. The second would be curriculum, so educational programming, often about agriculture, nutrition, healthy eating, but it could be using a garden for an art class, you know, or for a writing class. And the third is purchasing local. So procurement is the third piece and our program actually works in all three pieces of that and we have.

Carl Motsenbocker:

We had a full-time person that was a school nutrition director. We brought her on two years ago. I have a former teacher that's our curriculum expert. We have a communications coordinator and we have a program director. She had worked in extension in Tennessee for like seven or eight years and she's our program director. And I have a former student of mine. She is working like part-time. She's actually working in all three of my extension programs and she helps me teach classes. So it's a very dynamic situation for me right now. But it's been exciting to have you know to be working for so long and be not having much funding and then all of a sudden you know to have funding.

Carl Motsenbocker:

So we put out a series of sustainable gardening guides for school and home gardens, basically organic guides. We had there's like 17 of those. I'm still working on two or three. We have a whole other series that without the USDA funding, you know my administration would not give me for an extension associate. So that's just an example. Give me for an extension associate. So that's just an example, and we have harvested them on videos that we developed.

Carl Motsenbocker:

The one unique thing about the curriculum is we made sure that all of the lesson plans are tied to state standards. So when I used to go approach schools about doing farm to school, they said, oh, we're busy, we got to teach to the test, we got to teach to the curriculum, so these lessons are tied to the curriculum. So it's like, oh, I can use this, you know, and everything we have is on our website and you can download that. We have posters, we have recipes, we have, you know, a conversation guide. How do you, how does the school system talk to farmers? How does the farmer talk to the school system about buying? We have a whole host of materials that are there, and so it's been a lot of fun to kind of create this from literally almost nothing.

Sam Humphrey:

Wow. And to get funding and be able to work on something that's so impactful, that must be really exciting. I'm so curious about the range of students you reach. You said that maybe by the time students are in college, maybe it's a little bit late and we should be reaching out to younger students. What does that range look like to you, and how do those students vary by age?

Carl Motsenbocker:

So we try to survey and find out who uses our harvest of the month. So it's open for people to register and we give them the materials and then we try to get them to respond. But it's K through 12, so kindergarten through 12th grade. Our focus is primarily third through fifth grade, because I think that's probably the best time to get kids to be excited about horticulture, about where their food comes from, about eating better.

Carl Motsenbocker:

And we recently, about two years ago, we started with our early childhood education. So there's a group and we recently, like I, gave a talk to a group up in the northern part of the state and we recently, like I, gave a talk to a group up in the northern part of the state and then next week, on Saturday, I'm giving another just a brief overview of. You know, this is what our program is and we are developing curriculum for them to use for the little kids. And the other bright spot is Louisiana. 4-h has picked up our program and they're using Harvest of the Month for their weekly meeting times and so it's been interesting to see that kind of come together with us and we have a pilot of putting together for eight different commodities, working with 4-H, to kind of test that out. So that's been exciting and to have like my team. There's like five of us, five plus me. It's been a real blessing to have them because they are as excited as me about this.

Curt Rom:

Yeah, you mentioned that in the classes you teach on school gardening and community gardening. It's a service learning class, and so you have a campus community garden, didn't I hear you say that? And you're growing for your food pantry.

Carl Motsenbocker:

Yes, so that is correct. I have a 2000 level class organic gardening and sustainable crop production and a major component of that is students will grow using the market gardening method of a bed top on four foot centers, 30 inches and then 20 feet long, and then we also grow community beds that they will harvest and give to the LSU food pantry, and that's part of the service. So they start from beginning to end, they make their own transplants, they do their own direct seeding and we also have them transplant and direct seed staff on your campus.

Curt Rom:

That's a really wonderful thing. So, learning while serving what a novel idea, great class.

Carl Motsenbocker:

Yeah, it's a lot of fun and I think the major clientele group is probably graduate students, international graduate students that may not have as much funds and right now I'm teaching my 4,000-level vegetable crops class and they don't have individual plots, they're just going to be growing for the food pantry and they select out of a hat if it's going to be a transplant and a direct seeded crop and they have to spend the semester growing that. So that's kind of a fun thing for us.

Sam Humphrey:

Do you have any stories about students who have done that and really enjoyed it?

Carl Motsenbocker:

Yeah, I actually I'm giving a talk on Friday on this. Well, actually I gave one yesterday, but some of the quotes so I know. I had one last fall. They said I lost weight, I ate better and I didn't have to go to the grocery store as much you know. And one was like you know, we can do this, it's not that hard. I mean, that's what a lot of them they realize. It isn't that difficult. As long as your soil is good, your conditions and you have all the equipment, it actually is not that hard a thing to do.

Curt Rom:

So you said you've already given a paper at the conference and you're going to give another one. Tell us what are your two papers, your presentations you're making.

Carl Motsenbocker:

So the first one was in the educational, the teaching, section yesterday and it was about my organic gardening class and growing food for the LSU Food Pantry and we brought in like 2,400 pounds of fresh product over the semester and then into the spring, because we usually have carrots and cabbage that's still left. And then on Friday, in the local food systems section, I'm giving a talk about harvest of the month but about the videos that we have developed and how many views we've had. And also we have developed a series of videos, horticulture videos, like three to five minutes long for the teachers, because the teachers are like, okay, it's August, what do we plan? So we give like an overview of the fall semester and then you know how do you make transplants, how do you direct seed? We have a series of eight and we're still making them.

Carl Motsenbocker:

The best one probably was ended the spring semester. What do you do with your garden? Right, school gardens, because that is, you know, you come back in the fall and it's all full of weeds, right, right. So that's been fun. And Izzy Frank, she's one of my, she was the one that she graduated like three years ago and she came back and so got somebody young and more vibrant, then didn't he Doing that one in crystal as he does the Harvest of the Month videos.

Sam Humphrey:

That's amazing. I find the video idea really fascinating. I was talking with spur prowlers a couple weeks ago and they were asking us researchers for videos and personally, I prefer to read. I would prefer like a blog post, and I'm really curious about your thoughts on ways to reach out to growers. What do they want?

Carl Motsenbocker:

Well, I think the younger growers, the 20 and 30 year olds, they like podcasts, they watch videos. It's surprising to me because I will ask and they say, hey, have you listened to so-and-olds? They like podcasts, they watch videos. It's surprising to me because I will ask and they say, hey, have you listened to so-and-so? And it's like no, For me personally. You know, I like to read, also, I can digest it better, but I think it's a different way of learning, and so we need to be cognizant of that in our classes too, giving them you know, instead of just standing up and lecturing. You know they want videos, they want a little more dynamism, and so that's and I think the hands-on is something that, with the classes that I can, we try to do hands-on horticulture. So I think it's a skill, you know, being able to grow food. Everybody should know how to grow food, where our food comes from, the importance of what we eat.

Curt Rom:

You know you mentioned you're doing these two presentations. They both have abstracts With them. They were very interesting. I think our listenership, those that are listening out there, will probably be very interested. They will be published. Those abstracts will be published in our supplemental science journal and so I think that information, I would really think that the information that you presented, would resonate with some others that want to start those kind of classes and have those kind of service learning opportunities on campuses across the United States. So, listeners, you'll be able to find that on the work science in the future and I assume that you wouldn't mind if they reach out to you?

Carl Motsenbocker:

No, they could reach out. I can send them a PDF of my presentations too, and our website is seedstosuccessdotcom. That's the Farm to School website, and we have three different sections, one of which has all our gardening publications, and then we have curriculum there and yeah, so that actually it's a website we develop outside of our university, and it's actually really nice. I hate to say that.

Sam Humphrey:

And you said that's where students can find your videos as well.

Carl Motsenbocker:

The videos are there. We have a YouTube channel for the Harvest of the Month videos, louisiana Public Broadcasting LPB. They have them all there. And then we also have a YouTube channel for our Seeds to Success program. So our program is called Seeds to Success, the Louisiana Farm to School program.

Curt Rom:

Carl, there might be some listeners too that are younger in the career than you and I are, but might want to be following in your footsteps. So, in your view, what are some of the big challenges, some of the next big questions, or the exciting things that those of us that are working on food systems and local foods, what do we need to tackle next to you know, improve local foods as a component of our food system.

Carl Motsenbocker:

Yeah, Well, that's a good question.

Curt Rom:

Well, thank you for that.

Carl Motsenbocker:

I think for me, I think it's important to listen to our farmers and listen to our students and see what they want and what their needs are. And I've been just sitting back and I had a student that graduated and I asked her she was farming, are you happy, you know? Are you making enough to live and enjoy your life? And she was taken back at that. But I did that before we started our Beginning Farmer Training Program, because I wasn't going to start that program if I knew it wasn't going to benefit. Right, and I think we have to be intentional about what we do.

Carl Motsenbocker:

But often it's serendipity where we end up. I think we're right where we were supposed to be. You know, in our lives we just kind of follow a path and it just happened that we followed certain, we made certain decisions and so, you know, you just got to let things flow. I think, if that makes sense for a young person, kind of look forward and see where do I want to be 10 years from now or five years and what do I need to do to get there. But there may be other paths that are open on the way there and you never know what's going to happen.

Curt Rom:

Yeah, you can't anticipate what doors might open. I asked you a very difficult question. I don't know if you got it, because if we understood all the questions right now, we'd be working on those questions. But there will be new questions and especially with the changing environment, climate change, changing economic needs, I think there'll still be a lot of opportunity for some really great work on local foods and food systems.

Carl Motsenbocker:

But there was a question in my talk that somebody asked is anybody doing research on the market gardener model? And I don't think there really has been much. And that would be a great opportunity for, like a grad student, to actually go on four or five farms and document all their inputs, you know, and how they market and and their profits. Because, to be honest, some of my colleagues on campus when I said yeah, a farmer and his wife can make a living on five acres, they just don't say anything. They don't my ag econ friends, they just don't believe it. But I know in our state now we have people that are doing that and there's money there.

Sam Humphrey:

My last question for you. Feel free to ask your own last question if you'd like. I'm not going to ask if you're happy, but I'm going to ask what about your work makes you happy? What about it? What brings you happiness? Yeah, it's a professional article.

Curt Rom:

That's a great question, Sam. I really like that.

Carl Motsenbocker:

Yeah, that's a great question. I've actually been reflecting more and more about my life and why I am what I am. But I love horticulture, I love plants, I like to see people enjoying themselves and I enjoy culture. You know, Curt, you and I we travel. I do travel and I like to. I go visit farmer's markets or grocery stores any place in the world just to see what's available in food, and so I think I really feel blessed in the job that I have. And it's going to be hard to step away and I'm always worried that they won't hire anybody for my position, that it just fade away and all this is just going to end up slowly gone, and that's the, that's the danger, right that we have.

Curt Rom:

Yeah, Well, you know, uh, I've often heard that we're all replaceable, but in some ways we're or maybe a little irreplaceable. So well, Sam, I think this has been a really kind of interesting, good conversation I think it has.

Sam Humphrey:

I I feel very hopeful hearing about the networks of farmers that are talking to each other and that are helping each other and that are sharing information. Um, I didn't realize that there was such a community out there for local farmers and and I'm feeling very hopeful about it. That's such an interesting thing and I hope that I can fit some of this into my career. So thank you for telling us about yours, Carl, and you're shaping young minds even as you attend the ASHS annual conference.

Carl Motsenbocker:

Thank you for letting me come here and speak, and it's been enjoyable. It's good to meet you. It's good to meet you. It's good to meet you too.

Curt Rom:

Carl, it's always good to connect with you. I know we share a mutual interest in these aspects of the local food system and, as you know, I've come to visit you some to see what you do For our listeners. Again, I want to remind you that you can look up Carl on the internet Carl Mostenbacher, louisiana State University and tell us again your website, where your resources are.

Carl Motsenbocker:

So you can go to the LSU AgCenter website. If you Google me, Carl Mostenbacher, it's M-O-T-S-E-N-B-O-C-K-E-R. My profile page is there, but our Farm to School website is seedstosuccessdotcom.

Curt Rom:

Seedstosuccessdotcom and his abstracts presentation will be published in Hort Science, you know. Supplemented, it will include all of the abstracts for the presentations and posters at this conference. Well, it's been a good conference, Sam, and today, actually right now, we're at the geometric halfway point, so we've still got half of it to go, but it's starting to wind down quick.

Sam Humphrey:

I don't know. I have so many talks still on my list. I don't feel like it's winding down at all, but thank you to everyone who was able to attend in person today as well. It's really exciting for us to have a live episode, since we're always just doing it through our computers and we never get to see our listeners, and it's just wonderful to see so many wonderful faces here. So thank you.

Curt Rom:

Sam, we have a question from our audience, so hold on a second. We're going to take the microphone over. Please introduce yourself and tell us what your question is.

Allison Love:

Hi, thanks, I'm Allison. My question is regarding the program schools. I guess in Texas there were some schools that are in more rural regions where it seems that a lot of the students may already have more access to learning about gardening and agriculture, horticulture, that sort of thing. As somebody who grew up in a city, I know my school didn't have any of that. So how do you choose which schools to bring this program to, or do they come to you?

Carl Motsenbocker:

Okay, that's a great question. The question was rural versus urban, and how do we decide which schools are working with or do they come to us. Schools are working with or do they come to us? Basically, we have materials that are on our website and we do trainings, and we don't focus on rural versus urban, I would say, in terms of local food systems, we have food deserts in rural areas too, and there's problems with food access and so, but yeah, they we have. Right now, we have an institute, we have a food farm to school institute. That's an adapter from Vermont and we have four districts, four school districts, two of which are urban and two are rural, and so it just depends yeah, it depends on the interest. So part of what our job is to just let people know around the state that, yes, this program exists. These are the benefits, this is how you use the program and that's how we try to support the expansion of our programming.

Curt Rom:

Well, thank you very much for that question, Allison. Well, thank you, it was a pleasure to be here.

Carl Motsenbocker:

Thank you again.

Curt Rom:

Well, thank you, it was a pleasure to be here. So this was Plants, People, Science, a podcast of the American Society for Horticulture Science, where we like to talk about everything related to horticulture and plants. If you want more information about the American Society for Horticulture Science, please visit our website, ashs. org. You might want to consider membership and the benefits of membership, including the ability to publish discounts in our publications, discounts in our conferences. But American Society for Horticulture Science, ASHS, Sam, thanks for being here today. I've enjoyed it. I look forward to our next conversation.

Sam Humphrey:

I'm excited for it. Thank you, and thank you listeners for listening.

Curt Rom:

The ASHS podcast Plants, People, Science is made possible by member dues and volunteerism. Please go to ASHS. org to learn more. If you're not already a member of the ASHS, we invite you to join. ASHS is a not-for-profit and your donations are tax-deductible.

Sam Humphrey:

This episode was hosted by Samson Humphrey and Curt Rom. Special thanks to our audio engineer, Andrew Sheldorf, our research specialists Lena Wilson and Andrew Sheldorf, our ASHS support team, Sara Powell and Sally Murphy, and our musician, John Clark. Thanks for listening.

Curt Rom:

Thank you.